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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
Hosted by Darren Baker
Ken Burns, PBS
justsendit
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Posted: Friday, November 10, 2017 - 10:56 PM GMT+7
Thought I’d give this topic a Veteran’s Day bump. Ten episodes well worth watching from beginning to end. IMHO.

Respectfully,
—mike
vettejack
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Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 04:28 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Thought I’d give this topic a Veteran’s Day bump. Ten episodes well worth watching from beginning to end. IMHO.

Respectfully,
—mike



..."for those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will NEVER know"...
bill_c
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Saturday, November 11, 2017 - 07:29 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text

One editorialist in the NY Post (a Marine veteran of the war) attacked this series on the grounds that while it is factually correct it is too gloomy and fails to highlight the patriotism and pride felt by many veterans who served in Vietnam. He complains that film of the panicky final pullout in 1975 is depressing--as if the inclusion of something which happened just as shown somehow invalidates the whole project because it's upsetting to watch.

If that is the real objection some folks have to this series--that while accurate it still makes them feel bad--then perhaps they should stay away from history altogether, as much of it doesn't show humanity in a very positive light and can be quite depressing to read or watch.


What troubles me is the belief among some that baldly showing the horrors of war will prevent young men (and now women) from signing up to be cannon fodder. Experience tells us this isn't true, and if the US were attacked tomorrow, the recruiting stations would be filled with volunteers.

War is NOT heroic, and those who serve rarely say otherwise. Yes, they are proud of what they did for the most part, and the scorn Vietnam vets received when they returned is a stain on the character of the United States. It's usually said that civilians don't "get it" about service, and I have no doubt that is true. But there was simply no excuse to blame the soldiers instead of the dishonest pols who sent them to do a ****ty job.

If we honestly show the good and the bad about history, and the masses come away supporting war less, then maybe that is a good thing? After all, the US has in many respects never demobilized following WW2 and has fought an endless series of wars and insurgencies that have killed many (on both sides), military and civilian, and yet accomplished so little.
TopSmith
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 03:22 AM GMT+7
My brother saw Ken Burns Civil War series and said it was great. After watching the Vietnam series he said it was 50 years too soon to do objectively. There are many still living that experienced the war from one point or another and it is difficult to look at it objectively without judging the work based on your personal experiences.
justsendit
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 04:52 AM GMT+7
Better to discuss it now, rather than wait 50 more years when all will be gone.
exgrunt
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Posted: Sunday, November 12, 2017 - 05:15 AM GMT+7

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r to maybe help guide future generations from repeating history and making the same mistakes.



Given the events post-9/11, I'd say we haven't learned much from Vietnam.
vettejack
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 - 02:05 AM GMT+7

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


r to maybe help guide future generations from repeating history and making the same mistakes.



Given the events post-9/11, I'd say we haven't learned much from Vietnam.



...got that right!
TopSmith
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 - 02:23 AM GMT+7
Human nature is to ignore the lessons of the past. Why do you rebuild on the beach after the hurricane destroyed your house?
"This time it will be different!"
j76lr
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 - 12:23 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

Better to discuss it now, rather than wait 50 more years when all will be gone.


yes
babaoriley
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Posted: Monday, November 13, 2017 - 01:39 PM GMT+7

Quoted Text

What troubles me is the belief among some that baldly showing the horrors of war will prevent young men (and now women) from signing up to be cannon fodder. Experience tells us this isn't true, and if the US were attacked tomorrow, the recruiting stations would be filled with volunteers.



Nine feet tall, invisible and bulletproof--that's how eighteen year olds see themselves. That's why armies try to recruit in the late teens, because in not too many more years most folks have a better grasp on their own mortality. Older folks can still make very good soldiers, but they don't rush off at the sound of the trumpet with quite the blind enthusiasm of teenagers.


Quoted Text

War is NOT heroic, and those who serve rarely say otherwise. Yes, they are proud of what they did for the most part, and the scorn Vietnam vets received when they returned is a stain on the character of the United States. It's usually said that civilians don't "get it" about service, and I have no doubt that is true. But there was simply no excuse to blame the soldiers instead of the dishonest pols who sent them to do a ****ty job.


That most politicians of today have never served in the military and don't have children in the military is troubling--they don't understand what they are sending young people to do when they decide that a little gunboat diplomacy is in order. As for the treatment of Vietnam vets returning to America, yes, it was shameful.


Quoted Text

If we honestly show the good and the bad about history, and the masses come away supporting war less, then maybe that is a good thing? After all, the US has in many respects never demobilized following WW2 and has fought an endless series of wars and insurgencies that have killed many (on both sides), military and civilian, and yet accomplished so little.



The line about truth being the first casualty of war comes to mind. One might think that Vietnam would have made the point that blindly accepting whatever the govt. of the day says about the need to go to war in dubious circumstances is a bad idea, but recent history suggests we still haven't learned that lesson.